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Post by Danny on Jun 24, 2009 22:44:00 GMT 1
Danny nodded, aware that he would only be viewing Kasiya's interpretation of events, but it served much better than to ask him to recount the details. It might clarify things a little. And it did. He released himself from Kasiya's mind and took a breath, and got ready to speak.
"It is evident to me now how this misunderstanding came to be," Danny said. "For that you can only blame me. My request for Kasiya to guide you was not made public, nor did I make it clear to him what his job was. I would never expect a proud Black Fury to roll over and accept someone else's leadership based on what she perceived to be a whim. I do not fault you for that. As I do not fault Kasiya's intentions. But a little communication could have gone a long way."
He looked at Kasiya for the last part. Communication was not the Theurge's strong point, he knew that now.
"But you did not let pride and anger deter you from your goal," he added. "You were both better than that, and because of that, you are here now. What is done, is done. We can only hope to learn from it." He looked between them once again, sensing the deeper hostility that this incident had bred between them. "Do you have anything more to say to each other?" he asked.
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Yvonne
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Post by Yvonne on Jun 24, 2009 22:56:34 GMT 1
"So am I." Yvonne says, in response to Kasiya's regret of the situation. She takes a deep breath to steel herself, Danny was so much more approachable but now the ice was broken she attempted to forge on. "But if you weren't so standoffish and arrogant..." she pauses as she avoids more offensive and inflammatory remarks "...maybe it would be easier to talk to you. If you'd actually tried to communicate rather than clamming up and just thinking yourself so much better than everyone else, maybe that wouldn't of happened." She pauses and frowns, in light of the fact the entire thing had been a misunderstanding. "At least, that's how you act." She shrugs and looks away, a little upset by the confrontation, but keeping her hurt feelings bottled up isn't going to help either. "I only wanted to come along to make sure you didn't come to any harm. I saw you when you fought in the pit, if you'd been caught with just you and Simeon you might of been killed."
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Kasiya
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Post by Kasiya on Jun 25, 2009 18:37:04 GMT 1
The two-ponged verbal assault is a little on the tricky side for Kasiya to follow. He like to deal with one topic at a time, yet felt the urge to respond to both of her points. He dealt with the easiest first.
"Kamenwati and I are both skilled scouts. My intent was not to be seen. Then we would not need to fight."
And neither of us are ashamed of running.
But he didn't deal with spirits and not lean how to stroke an ego, so he continues:
"Anna and Adiyah needed your protetion more. Vasara was badly hurt, injured in the head and unpredictable. He would have stormed the hive alone."
It's a good thing for Kasiya that those had been his reasons for wanting her to stay put, because he sucks at lying. Needing to address the comments toward his arrogance and standoffishness, he let it wait in favour of keeping the conversation on a single track. The strain showed on him the more complicated a discussion got.
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Yvonne
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Post by Yvonne on Jun 25, 2009 18:55:42 GMT 1
"I'm not exactly clumsy and prone to making a lot of noise, either, you know. And that doesn't change the fact that you hadn't said anything to anyone, so you had no right to claim leadership on the spur of the moment and expect everyone to just do what you say, and then try to use the litany to wrongly back it up when someone actually objected to that nonsense." She pauses, restrains herself for a moment, then tries to continue a little more politely. "You can't claim leadership and demand obedience by the litany if only you know about it. Vasara was injured, but he was coherent, and he holds rank over us all as well, so unless he actually started making bad decisions he was the only one with any authority. You can't just assume he's going to make wrong decisions, why don't you just assume he isn't worthy of his rank too while you're at it?" Though Yvonne had her own personal issues with the Fenrir, that was relatively minor. It takes an effort for Yvonne not to mention Kasiya's incompetence and stalling had almost gotten them killed, or at least far more hurt, in the sewers. "It was only fortunate that Vasara did decide to enter the hive after you'd attempted to claim leadership on the spur of the moment. Otherwise you'd have just argued right there, since even now you still don't seem to realise how foolish that was."
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Kasiya
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Post by Kasiya on Jun 25, 2009 19:32:12 GMT 1
Biting back the Rage, Kasiya, unable to contend with Yvonne at wordplay and the casting of blame, abandons the attempt at reason. He had tried. He can taste his own blood, realising he was biting back more than Rage.
Turning away from Yvonne so he didn't have to look at her, he talks to Danny again.
"I tried. She only wishes to insult and demean me."
His fingers flicker Strider handtalk as he speaks, out of sight of the others: "She is a petulant child whose feelings have been hurt. There is nothing I can do."
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Post by Danny on Jun 25, 2009 19:59:25 GMT 1
As difficult as it was to get them to talk things out, Danny wasn't ready to give up yet. "Stay," he asked Kasiya. "She is young, but she is not beyond reason. She will understand if you explain."He looked at Yvonne. He had a feeling she only wanted an explanation, maybe even an apology, an admission of wrong. But words meant very little to wolves. "I do not want this to end unsettled," he said. "How can we fight our enemies if we are divided against ourselves. What is done now is done, and there's nothing at stake but both of your pride. You fought well together. You rescued our cubs, and brought back our pack. You attacked the hive itself. Don't let this divide you." (Don't make me play the super-awesome-galliard-speech card and make you listen )
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Yvonne
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Post by Yvonne on Jun 25, 2009 20:02:39 GMT 1
Yvonne shakes her head suddenly at Kasiya's accusation. "No, I'm only trying to help you. I hate having to do this." She pauses and takes a breath, Kasiya's arrogance was threatening to blow everything out of proportion, but she does her best to stay calm. "If you don't admit you made a mistake, if you don't accept that and move on, your arrogance will be the end of you. I want us to all be able to work together, but how can I ever have any faith in your judgement if you can't admit when you do wrong, and try to hide it when the fact is held in your face? You can only learn if you realise you have something to learn."
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Kasiya
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Post by Kasiya on Jun 25, 2009 20:59:24 GMT 1
Kasiya's fingers flcker again before he turns: "I will try again, but I am done treating her gently."
Rounding back on Yvonne, he refrains from raising his voice.
"I am wrong because you say i am. I am arrogant because you have decided it is so. You name me arrogant while blind to your own arrogance. You are as bad as I. You simply use words to dress it nicely. You only follow your own judgment. Ignore and dismiss that of others."
He spits his own blood and saliva onto the ground.
"Of course I led poorly. I am no leader. I took that place only when asked to by our Sept Alpha. I have only ever looked after myself and the dead."
How well would you fare if you could see every murdered child that those skulls were taken from and hear their cries for help?
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Yvonne
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Post by Yvonne on Jun 25, 2009 21:58:35 GMT 1
Yvonne sighs and looks down. It's sad, really. "I didn't say you're wrong. Danny made that judgement." She glances at Danny, it was hard to believe Kasiya was still trying to place blame on her when the eldest and surely wisest Garou of the Sept was standing against him. "I don't see what trying to talk things out rather than dismissing others out of pride has to do with anything. For one who clearly disapproves of expressing concepts clearly, you are trying very hard to bend words so that your failure is somehow my fault."
There is truly nothing else to say, Kasiya is in denial and ignoring the words of the Athro and his tribemate in his insane degree of arrogance. She could only hope he would see sense, since he is obviously going to attack any attempt to talk it out reasonably, presumably compensating for his own discomfort with words with hostility. Like when a weak fighter takes offense to a strong fighter, or the careless take offense to the planned, when they are defeated. At a loss for any way of trying to impart some simple wisdom, though it surely feels odd that a Theurge would be the one needing it, Yvonne looks at Danny again to see what he will say.
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Kasiya
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Post by Kasiya on Jun 26, 2009 18:52:02 GMT 1
Hang on! Once again he'd apparrenly said something completely different to the words which came out of his mouth. Deeply confused, he raises a palm outwards toward Yvonne, a gesture of conciliation. He'd never wanted to disguise his own faults but Yvonne's asserttions of her blamelessness infuriated him.
"Wait. I accept that my actions at the hive were not without flaw. I accept that I could have led better. I accept that the words I used could have been better thought out. And I am prideful and arrogant."
With a forced tone of temperance, he continues.
"But this is a disagreement between you and I. Neither of us is without fault. Do you accept your own pride and arrogance? We are as bad as one another. We both have good reason to be proud and this conversation is as good a proof of our arrogant manner as any."
Like a bulldog he's going to drag the debate back to this until she aknowleges or denies the point. He'd made his admissions of failing, twice now. He's unsure what more she wants. Debate is wearing Kasiya down. Usually when spirits got what they wanted they backed off happy with their gains. Yvonne seemed not to follow such a logical process.
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Yvonne
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Post by Yvonne on Jun 26, 2009 19:14:21 GMT 1
"No, that isn't what this is about at all. It never was." Yvonne shakes her head, how he'd gotten the hold of the wrong end of the wrong stick eludes her. Thinking back she couldn't even begin to think what she'd said that led him to those conclusions. "I wasn't questioning your judgement... only your right to make it. That is a right you assumed wrongly, you can't claim leadership when only you think you have any claim to it and you don't tell anyone else in advance that you think you have that claim. Like Danny said." Though she had to admit, that point had gotten lost early on. She'd failed to steer the argument back on course by answering Kasiya's digression at all, and he seems to have gotten bogged down in what was really an irrelevant point. "I only mentioned your unbelievable arrogance in claiming leadership wrongly in the first place, and... well... because you're not easy to approach because of it. Of course I accept my own pride, though I don't know what that has to do with anything, I have a lot to be proud of. But I don't go around assuming I have rights which I don't."
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Kasiya
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Post by Kasiya on Jun 26, 2009 19:59:28 GMT 1
He could just about continue with Yvonne like this.
"You can not throw words like pride and arrogance around. Try that with the Fenrir and you'll be fighting, not talking."
Without letting his voice rise again, Kasiya tries to continue the calmer tone that seemed to be prevailing.
"This whole thing is a mistake. I do not want to let it happen again. It came about through not talking, so will you help me? I need to practice talking to and understanding the human-born, and pehaps you will learn a little about my kind."
They didn't understand each other on so many levels. Perhaps this would be the way to work past it.
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Yvonne
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Post by Yvonne on Jun 26, 2009 20:21:18 GMT 1
"You yourself admitted to your arrogance, and I'm not the only one that feels that way. I'm sorry if that bothers you, but I wasn't just throwing the word around." Kasiya's attempt to change the subject and avoid actually admitting to his mistake didn't go overlooked, but he obviously had trouble with admitting the real mistakes. Since Danny had passed his judgement on the matter she hoped he'd at least take that in anyway. The fact he has the humility to admit at least some of his failings goes a long way, though. "You shouldn't throw around accusations of lies and fabrications either, I don't lie. Though arrogance might not be a sign of inadequacy, accusing me of lies is questioning my very honour." She takes a breath, sets it aside as words said in anger, and drops the subject. "Assuming someone means offence just because one possible interpretation of their words is offensive doesn't help communication either. Almost anything can be seen as offensive if viewed in the wrong light... like when you're angry or frustrated. I'm a bit suprised you're so sensitive about it, actually."
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Kasiya
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Post by Kasiya on Jun 26, 2009 21:28:22 GMT 1
Her latest inordinately convoluted sentence finally takes her beyond Kasiya's ability to follow.
"You have completely lost me."
Confused and feeling that she was using this as an opportunity to continue bashing him he does not even trying to derail her anymore.
"So? Will you accept what I've said and try to stop the same mistake from happening again?"
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Yvonne
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Post by Yvonne on Jun 26, 2009 21:43:17 GMT 1
Yvonne tries to talk in even simpler terms, though she hadn't been babysitting in a long time. Of course, she goes on oblivious to Kasiya's paranoia and insecurities, since he's failing to communicate. "Something isn't necesarrily meant to cause offence just because it could be meant offensively. I wasn't trying to offend you, but because you were angry you jumped to that conclusion. I could of gotten upset over you calling me a liar, but that wouldn't of helped anything, and you didn't... I hope you didn't mean it."
"If you think you have a claim to leadership, actually telling others you think you have a claim to leadership in advance so they can be forewarned that you might give orders, or object to your claim if they see fit. I can't see anyone, whether they're a wolf or not, tolerating a spontaneous claim to leadership if you don't actually have a right to lead by rank."
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